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jared
05-09-2005, 10:41 AM
Hello, I'm back after being knocked off my butt from the flu. I noticed a lot has happened in the forums since my last visit and the dozens of emails I've received.

I'm curious. While chatting with other members in the forums about customization, we hit on the subject of templates. In order to provide free templates for the much anticipated release of 2.0, we would need to secure some Royalty Free Images to do this. Considering my developer cost of royalty free images averages about $75 each, giving them away is just not realisitc.

So I pose a questions as to whether or not custom templates would be worth $75 or more as drop in template solutions? We had touched on the idea that building several for sale in the forums in which proceeds would go to open-realty.org (less design costs) to further the development of open-realty. Of course this idea would need approval by open-realty team.

I'm curious what the members think the market would (NOT SHOULD) bare for custom open-realty GUI's (templates) Please look at the above poll.

Jared

RealEstate
05-09-2005, 11:08 AM
Perhaps you should explain exactly what the price includes:

What files are included?

Do you just drop in the files and that's it? or do you need more work than that?

Can you give us an idea of the design quality? Perhaps a few low resolution screen shots will do.

I think these questions will help members best answer you poll.

jared
05-09-2005, 11:12 AM
Honestly RealEstate, the templates would be a drop in solution with no modification to open-realty what so ever (unless customization is the objective).

Just place the template folder in the template directory, change the template setting from the ACP, refresh the front page, and there you go.

Obviously this depends largely on default install or new install of open-realty. Otherwise the template would need to be customized.

What I was thinking of including is the following; PSD source, Thumbnail, CSS, and all the pages required.


Jared

RealEstate
05-09-2005, 11:24 AM
Jared,

The idea sounds great.

Another thing is that you can have prices based on the design quality.

Basic design $50

Advanced design $75

Ultimate design $100

Since some designs are more of more quality and more take longer to design.

If the designs were like the ones in template monster and is just a drop in, and you include all those files you mentioned previously...I say starting at $50 would be within budget.

Torgen
05-09-2005, 11:41 AM
For $50 to $75, I'd have to see more than just the main,listingbrowse and listingview pages. Things like mailforms to request an appointment for a CMA, a *secure* form for requesting loan prequalification (#1 reason I didn't buy an off-the-shelf real estate site: they are asking for your SS# and all sorts of sensitive info on an UNSECURE page,) maybe a page on what the agent/firm does to sell your home, and one for tips on buying a home. Some of the commercial real estate site companies are providing a ton of content in an easy to edit format, for $35/mo hosting (and sometimes waiving some or all of the setup fees of $150-$500)

I realize that you can't package an SSL setup in the template, but instructions and warnings on how to secure that form would suffice, I think.

Perhaps hitting some of the royalty-free sites/businesses that only charge a few dollars per image would help the bottom line. You don't really need high-rez images for the sites/templates.

One other thing about templates. Many of the templates I've seen, I would have purchased except for the fact that they had all sorts of things I didn't need, like rental sections on the front page, career sections, forms to find a moving company(?) etc. I think that a big market segment for OR is people like me: an agent that wants his own personal page. I don't need the things that a brokerage needs, and many many brokerages don't do rentals. As consolidation continues to take place, you'll see fewer independents while the chains get larger. I imagine these chains will steer their franchises toward standardized applications. This puts the OR template maker in the position where he doesn't have the rights to those corporate images to use in a prepackaged template, though a client working for that chain will, for use on their individual site. (at least, that's the way I understand it.)


Well, this quickly expanded past the original scope of the post. :p Anyway, I'd like to see an "OR Lite" geared for individual agents. What would be nice in 2.0 is to have a "color picker" in the admin section, like Planet Realtor has for the free individual agent sites for members of the Florida Assoc of Realtors. Be able to upload a title graphic and maybe a graphic for the tops of columns, and the ability to click on a color palette to set background, menu bar, and table colors.

jared
05-09-2005, 12:32 PM
Torgen; You went way beyond templates and straight to customization of open-realty. I thought I was clearer, My appologies.

I'm really playing against myself on this since I'm in agreement with other members of the forums on our own projects that offer complete full blown business solutions. In fact I'm working on a demo domain at time of this post that includes a custom interface and a spank of custom features. In fact, as soon as I can conclude a pesky little error I'm getting in an osCommerce project for a computer surplus company, I'm on to templates for our project almost full time.

What I'm considering or proposing is a collection of some truly nice interfaces that drop into open-realty as layout or GUI templates. Not modification of open-realty, just the way it looks. Make them available for the admins of open-realty to sell for funds to support development.

1) Take a raw open-realty install.
2) Drop in a template and change setting in ACP
3) Refresh the front page
4) Thats it. customize as needed.

This is no different then tempates I create for osCommerce, Zen Cart, Mambo, PhpBB, SimpleMachines Forums, or any other open-source application. I design the interface, currently another genius does the coding. My skills in PHP are humbled abusively almost to the point of shame by another member of the forums I've been working with. But then again I come from a design publishing background along with VB/VBA database work.

About the images:
Yes I'm fully aware of the image licensing and stock photo houses since I buy them in volume. I'm a member of a few that are rather costly per month. My one time custom templates certainly reflect my costs.
The issue isn't availability of images its availability of re-distribution rights of those images. You say a few dollars, but I've yet to find royalty free images for a few dollars. The average cost is more like $75 and unless I can sell a commercial open distributed template 10 or more times its not worth my time.

Jobs I do now include full photo license rights. I buy, use, and then give the images with custom templates I currently design. That is the reason my designs are upwards of $125 and up.

About setup fees;
Most that charge them depend on them. I'm not putting myself into that mode. Setup fees are often charged by companies that have deceptive marketing and pricing schedules. Its like, "Limited Time Only, 100% free with a $100 setup fee" I dont work that way. I just complete the job and if you want me to maintain it and update it then its a flat monthly service fee. No messing around with hidden costs, its bad business.

Jared.

frobn
05-09-2005, 05:41 PM
Jared,

What you are trying to do is extremely resonable. Unfortunately too many agents/Realtors prefer having a web site that looks like a seventh grade school project than to spend a reasonable amount for a professional site. I will no longer work with a broker who does not fully understand how high the stakes are. The cost of a web site is a small fraction of the income potential that it can generate.

jared
05-09-2005, 05:52 PM
Some confirmation to your statement Frobn; My partner Mark just completed a template customized for Simple Machines Forum scripts and integrated it with Mambo for seamless look and feel. The theme and custom coding neted him $1,780 but the site will easily generate that every week if they market it correctly. (That site sells reprints of rare historical photographs, along with some amazing forensic photo recovery technologies as well)

PS. Check your email for files.

Jared

Torgen
05-09-2005, 07:43 PM
Hi Jared,

As I said, I went far beyond the scope of the post. :) I know next to nothing about the differences between the $4 and $75 stock photography places, which was why I was asking. I know that I rarely find exactly what I'm looking for there, and have resigned myself to finding the time to go out and shoot the photos I need myself.

I haven't had a chance to dig into the template widgets we now have in OR 2.0. I agree that a professional looking site is worth the money folks like you ask for it, but I think that your primary clientele for templates is going to be small indy web devs that are putting things together for an agent or office, rather than the Realtor or office itself. I'd wager that a tiny fraction of agents have a technical background as I do. The agents that we *do* see here on the forums are in as much of a "chicken and egg" situation as I've been. You need a nice site to get business, but without business, how do you afford a nice site? I'm fully aware of the effort and time it takes to design something, being married for 12 years to an artist who is now also a writer. I get to see the frustration up close as well as experiencing it myself when working on my own stuff. :)

I think that perhaps there should be some simplistic templates for next to nothing to get folks started, then when they have money to jazz things up, they can upgrade to the nicer templates. That's my plan. Get something that doesn't look like a "middle school project" until I can get on top of the bills, then jazzing it up to play with the big boys when I can afford it. We Realtors have far more bills than people think we do. It's not like we're banking even half of that commission sometimes, after fees, dues, advertising, expenses, self-employed health insurance rates and paying our own Social Security and FICA taxes. ;)

In fact, I have a design idea for a site that I want to get done before the fall selling season here in Florida (too late for the spring season) that I am going to have to hire out, as I just don't have the artistic skill to pull it off. I'm trying to (re)gain the coding skill to get the "under the hood" stuff done myself.

So, in short, what I was trying to say this morning before flying off on a tangent is, I think your market for the *good* stuff is going to be other developers that have never put together a realty site before, instead of the agents that here because they're too poor to hire a web developer. That's where I would focus my energy, and not worry too much about the agents themselves. Again, sorry about that wild tangent this morning. :)

jared
05-09-2005, 08:56 PM
No need for apology; thats why we have forums.
Yes I agree that some entry level themes and templates would be nice.
I have an idea on that and may see how I can carry that out.

As to agents being poor; well I look at it this way;

An agent I know, paid $115 plus shipping for Full Color Business Cards.
The cards have a house a for sale sign and his contact details. Guess what his card is missing? The link to his website. How very odd.

To make matters worse this same agent (whom I believe to be good person so I'm not bad mouthing him) spent money on shirts and hats that have silk-screened logos on them. Nice, but as functional as a dish rag in my opinion. I'm no fan of Institutional Advertising (brand building) I think its a waste of money. Consider a bank who buys a billboard only to put up their name and a slogan of how great they are. Gosh thats neat, thats just about as exciting as catching syphilis. No call to action?! Hmmm.

Realtors should take their sites serious. This is a major avenue of business for them If they let it be one. I'm not casually biased, I'm 80% partial to Internet marketing above all else.

Therefore, I'm not sympathetic to Realtors who wont pay fair prices for good templates and design work. How many homes does one need to sell to justify the cost of a good website? I mean really, bag the color business cards and printed mugs and hats and all that junk. At least a website will continue working even after the business cards get washed in the washing machine.

Just some thoughts;

I'll go forward on the templates when my schedule clears a bit.

Jared.

P.S. I do appreciate the response Torgen, thanks;

Torgen
05-09-2005, 10:06 PM
I totally agree. The mail is crammed with catalogs every week from people wanting you to buy stuff. I learned real quick that football schedule magnets, recipe cards and notepads are just burning money. If you count all the "secret ways to get you $1 million in commissions a year" seminars and tapes that are touted, you'd need more than a million dollars a year just to pay for everything they try to sell you. Unfortunately, some folks never learn what works and what doesn't, until they've spent all their money. (I never did figure out what eNeighborhoods was supposed to do for that monthly fee that was supposed to save me time and make me all that money ;) )

Maybe because of my tech background, and maybe because I saw the leads another agent got from his site, but I plan on making my site the linchpin of my marketing. I agree that vanity advertising, especially when there are so many competitors, is money thrown away (I have about 15,000 other Realtors in my area, not counting licensees that aren't Realtors.)


(EDIT: I think that $100 for a one-of-a-kind design would probably be the best bargain an agent could make!)

webrebel
05-09-2005, 10:11 PM
Sorry of I missed something, but I'd pay OR for the code itself over paying for a template overlay....but then it wouldn't be OR huh? Great and versatile program with knowledgeable and polite creators/users! Thanks! :)

frobn
05-10-2005, 07:43 AM
As to agents being poor; well I look at it this way;

An agent I know, paid $115 plus shipping for Full Color Business Cards.
The cards have a house a for sale sign and his contact details. Guess what his card is missing? The link to his website. How very odd.

To make matters worse this same agent (whom I believe to be good person so I'm not bad mouthing him) spent money on shirts and hats that have silk-screened logos on them. Nice, but as functional as a dish rag in my opinion. I'm no fan of Institutional Advertising (brand building) I think its a waste of money. Consider a bank who buys a billboard only to put up their name and a slogan of how great they are. Gosh thats neat, thats just about as exciting as catching syphilis. No call to action?! Hmmm.

Realtors should take their sites serious. This is a major avenue of business for them If they let it be one. I'm not casually biased, I'm 80% partial to Internet marketing above all else.



Hi Jared,

You hit the nail on the head. Too many Realtors do not have a realistic view of the internet. If a Realtor believes and understands NAR's statistic that 2/3 to 3/4 of all home buyers have their first encounter with an agent on the internet then they will act accordingly. Here is another NAR statistic. 93% of all transactions are done by 7% of the Realtors. My guess is that the 7% gain a large portion of their business from having a good web site. I think that Realtors who are not aware of what the internet is all about should visit forums such as the http://www.national-real-estate-directory.com/real-estate-forum/
to learn more.

AWT
05-11-2005, 01:35 AM
when you sell electronic products in the form of templates , poeple always seem to respond better to lower prices, in the past i have tried many combos of pricing for selling templates on mainstream template sites / adult based sites etc.

i have found that you need to offer a deal that'll convince your customer that the deal your offering them is something not to be missed.

It seems too be hartd work to get upwards of $50 out of poeple these days, of course unless your selling something of value.

i have found the best way to offer themes / templates is to create a selection of templates and offer them all for download to your members for a certian membership fee, say low fees of 25$ or upto 99$ if your content can justify this. The good thing about this method, is you don't have to bother offering any support, just say all your templates are free to download for members only, alot of poeple expect a high level of support even if they shell out $5-$10 for a file. I'd say if your doing a design site, build up a nice selection of templates for your content area and also offer a range of free lower quialty templates to draw in users and customers.


Also poeple tend to be so varied using OR its hard to build themes to cater to all needs, one thing its good to remeber is that most users will be usa based, so there expecting templates / themes etc which they can easily use for a business, in most cases a realty agent.

one thing that would really set your templates apart is to build a template and also include optional pages to drop into the main directry, like a moded contactus, about etc and also include other pages like buyers, sellers and such like, this will take your stuff away from being just templates to becoming a full mod of such, the possabilitys are endless to, like poeple have mentioned before, you could have drop in agent theme file sets / vacations, rentals. agencies, guides its just endless money making ops out there

frobn
05-11-2005, 07:19 AM
It seems too be hartd work to get upwards of $50 out of poeple these days, of course unless your selling something of value.


"Value" That is the point.

What I see over and over is that agents/Realtors do not value the internet or open-realty web sites. Their thinking must go something like this, "OR is free so everything associated it should be free." I am working with a broker who wants to break into the hottest housing market in the US and maybe the world-Miami Beach. He is paying an enormous amount because he is convinced that the internet is his financial future. I meet with him twice a week to discuss strategy for integrating his web site into his total maketing plan. The site is less than a month old, we haven't begun full optimization and don't have the IDX installed. Yet last week the site hit #1 on MSN for its main key word phase and 2nd and 3rd spots for secondary key words. I'd say we are going in the right direction but more important the broker is excited and is convinced he is getting a good deal.

Whether you do it yourself or you hire someone to do it for you there is a cost to having a world class web presence.

jared
05-11-2005, 12:04 PM
Interesting points made by each of you;
Template pricing is a broad range subject and hard to set an average on. But I know this much, take template #8286 from templatemonster.com and look at the price. The cost of the template is reasonable at $61 but the unique price is $1850.00.

We build templates the same way. When I design my templates I make them a cross between those on template monster and CSS Zen Garden with my own style. Like Template Monster, we have core layouts and patterns in photoshop, pre-built navigation collections, pre-built template elements, making conceptualizing quick. Customizing is the time consumer. So I ask "What is a template for open-realty worth on average" "Is $75 - $175 to much?"

AWT
I'm not sure who your clients have been AWT but I usually get between $170 - $400 for custom templates (not specific to open-realty) depending on design requirements. I usually apply Template Monster templates to sites for $50 - $100 depending on the engine they are running, (mambo, open-realty, etc..) I'm posting a few here for free as I've always intended on doing but the image costs are an issue. $50 is no money, its barely worth mention, $75 is no money, $500 is when things start to get serious.

About your membership idea AWT. One of the fastest growing trends on the internet in my opinion. Sure thats a great idea. I've thought of doing that for our Excel template layout assistant, but my partner Mark refuses to allow me to release it because the calculations gives us an advantage on layout symetry. I would like to release our DreamweaverMX extensions by membership, but I've not seen many people here in the forums that actually use DreamweaverMX (please say you don't use FrontPage) so I'm focusing elsewhere. Upon release of 2.0 I'll likely zip up DreamweaverMX snippets for tempate layouts that I use and give them here for free.

Frobn is right,
I'm not stereotyping Realtors or their genera, but I rarely run into realtors who understand the value of internet marketing or even the importance of their sites. In fact most of the people that contact me with open-realty related work are not realtors at all. Lots of rental property sites a few automotive, and an adult dating agency and others. Only two actual Realtors sites! Just "2" thats it out of the dozzens I've built with open-realty alone. I wish I had an answer as to why?
I've always assumed after attending so many sales training seminars with Tom Hopkins and public spaking courses with Toastmasters that any sales oriented profession would see the internet as a blessing like no other.

No other medium allows an individual to be business owner, writer, publisher, sales person, and so on, all wrapped up in their own little site. Frobn gave a percentage that depicts the success ratio as beeing vastly one sided. This is true though of nearly every industry and is often called the 80/20 rule. The goal should be to strive to be in the 20% range.

This morning I got a envelope from the government containing my ISSN number for my online articles and a completed form 10X for periodical copyright four of my sites. I get to call myself a publisher of newsletters with my own ISSN number for syndication. This to me is good business.

I'm baffled by the "penny wise and pound foolish"

Jared
Publisher as of this morning

jared
05-11-2005, 03:07 PM
In the polls on a Mambo site, 80% say $100 plus for custom templates. If I were to set the price options higher, many would have said $500 plus. If fact one member said that a price below $100 is ridiculous.

Everyone but Realtors understand value? Hmmm.

Just an FYI

Jared

frobn
05-11-2005, 04:15 PM
In the polls on a Mambo site, 80% say $100 plus for custom templates. If I were to set the price options higher, many would have said $500 plus. If fact one member said that a price below $100 is ridiculous.

Everyone but Realtors understand value? Hmmm.

Just an FYI

Jared

Jared I know the poll was for a template.

Would this be a fair deal:

$400 for an OR version 2 install complete with semi-customized professional template and 1 year hosting?

User/Search engine friendly design architecture
Proper key element placement
All OR features

jared
05-11-2005, 04:26 PM
Depends on the host, but I'd say that would be a real low start, and I do mean low. Transparent Technologies has plans starting at $8 if I recall so thats almost a $100 a year. Templates take me a few hours to a few days depending on how much information I have. Install is a couple of hours if you count upload of open-realty over broadband. (sometimes quicker but not always) Sure $400+ is fair.

Did you gain access to the project management area yet. Mark updated several key details in there.

Jared

jared
05-11-2005, 05:48 PM
By suggestion here are a few links to look at.

My feeler post in the forums.
http://forum.mamboserver.com/showthread.php?p=209445#post209445

A very well written article that summarizes what I know to be true.
http://community.seriouslistings.com/viewtopic.php?t=16

Jared

Caleb
05-11-2005, 06:23 PM
i did an or based site for 800 once and i was ripping myself off, i did an openauto site for 750 and again i was ripping myself off,

base setup:1300

minor changes:1500

major changes: 1800-2500

you have to relize that you are going to have to inlude hours of support and teaching how to use and manage the site to possibly an office of people. $100 hardly covers first meeting and logo/graphics stuff.

your worth more then $400, start believing it.

Caleb
05-11-2005, 06:25 PM
design houses design crap, its all crap look at their work, i have a client that went with such an offer and they suffered for it. help your clients relize that they get what they pay for. and they dont have to put up with crap.

jared
05-11-2005, 06:39 PM
Thanks Caleb;
I respect that,


Jared

frobn
05-11-2005, 06:48 PM
i did an or based site for 800 once and i was ripping myself off, i did an openauto site for 750 and again i was ripping myself off,

base setup:1300

minor changes:1500

major changes: 1800-2500

you have to relize that you are going to have to inlude hours of support and teaching how to use and manage the site to possibly an office of people. $100 hardly covers first meeting and logo/graphics stuff.

your worth more then $400, start believing it.

Putting up a base OR site takes about 4 hours so it would be a break even project for me. Beyond the base the client is on his or her own. If they would like support, coaching or teaching I have a hourly and daily rate or they can ask for assistance on the forum. Perhaps 1 out 5 or 6 clients, will at some point, understand the value in ongoing maintenance and SEO. If you notice only 1-2% of the posters here are beyond the looks of a site and interested in how important a professional real estate site can be to their financial health. I have responded to numerous posts requesting feedback and have provided honest feedback about the usability of the sites, I don't recall anyone wanting to discuss how they could improve.

Torgen
05-11-2005, 06:58 PM
I'm just wondering what everyone's including in "putting up a basic OR site." It's taking me nowhere near 4 hours when I put one up. Of course, all I'm doing is making the tables, editing common.php and tossing it up there. That doesn't include any customization at all. Are you including making a custom title.jpg, entering in info in the about us/contact pages and loading listings?

jared
05-11-2005, 07:04 PM
If you notice only 1-2% of the posters here are beyond the looks of a site and interested in how important a professional real estate site can be to their financial health. I have responded to numerous posts requesting feedback and have provided honest feedback about the usability of the sites, I don't recall anyone wanting to discuss how they could improve.

I agree 100% with that. Usability is so often overlooked that one wonders why a person launches a site to begin with. As a visual designer I'm guilty of doing that many times myself so I have to keep my task list in front of me when I do design work lately or the objective will slide away.

However: Visual appeal is in my personal opinion the absolute most important immediate aspect of any product. Making things look pretty, because "Beauty" attracts first, not character.

Jared

frobn
05-11-2005, 07:17 PM
I'm just wondering what everyone's including in "putting up a basic OR site." It's taking me nowhere near 4 hours when I put one up. Of course, all I'm doing is making the tables, editing common.php and tossing it up there. That doesn't include any customization at all. Are you including making a custom title.jpg, entering in info in the about us/contact pages and loading listings?

Installing a site takes 1/2 to 1 hour. Working on a template and testing the site once it is installed takes about 3 hours. Unless I am working on my own server I do not like to install sites as too many things can go wrong. I recently installed a site with a host where the .htacess would not take a command to parse php in an html file. It took me two hours to have them tell me they were not willing do anything about it. I convinced the client to change hosts, but I still lost the time.

Jared, I agree that a site's design and appearance are of major importantance, the point I was trying to make is that a web site is more than appearance. I prefer simple clean designs as an elegant background for your content.

Torgen
05-11-2005, 08:06 PM
Thanks, frobn. I *knew* there was something else going on there. :D

Caleb
05-11-2005, 09:04 PM
or is a fantastic project, but to me its not plug and play. www.paradiserealestatehawaii.com is the closest to vanilla or that i have ever done for a client. from the get go with www.mashcars.com i relized that clients will always want very spacific things. then i made www.islerenting.com. with so much time invested i feel its importaint to take that into consideration. For spends millions to design and produce thir cars. does that mean they charge only the amount of the materials as their price, no. they invested that time and get paid for it. I say of joe client only wants to spend 400 bones on a site let him goto to one of his quick fix girls on the street corner, and when then relized they are just getting screwed they will come back to you, who have a quality lasting product.

am i out of line?

jared
05-11-2005, 09:48 PM
I agree caleb; So I'm setting my template prices at $5,000 US Each.

Just kidding, time on install set aside, using our Excel balance model for symetry I can weigh page elements for appearance effect pretty quickly. Design for Template Monster type templates usually takes me a solid day if not two in many instances.

Some of the tools of my trade are quite confidential no doubt but heres a rundown FYI.

-ColorSchemer is a big one I use daily!
-DreamweaverMX is my most important.
-PHPEdit Professional (anyone serious about PHP uses this application)
-All the popular browsers
-CSS Style Master from WestCiv is a major plus
-Notepad ++ (the FREE and only true cool notepad)
-MS Excel (Symetry balancing)(This is proprietary to my partner so its one of a kind)
-Photoshop 7.0 and CS (depends on what machine I'm on)
-FlashMX (hate it)
-Camtasia Studio 2.0 (hate it) I'm buying Captivate from Macromedia
-phpCodeBeautify (a major plus)
-ColorWheel Professional
-And Last I've been known to use the color match tool located at www.behr.com when I need truly beautiful color schemes.

Jared

Torgen
05-12-2005, 12:03 AM
I *really* gotta dig MX out and relearn it. Haven't touched it in two years, and wasn't all that hot with it to begin with. ;) I have PaintShopPro9 and my wife has PS 7. That idea of using the Behr color matcher is outstanding! We used it to pick colors for the home office and second bath, but I never thought of using it for template design. :)

jared
05-12-2005, 12:12 AM
Funny thing about that. Look at the email from the developer.


Jared,

Thanks for the compliments on Behr - we feel it is a great tool as well.
We have never heard of it being used for color schemes for web design
but...there you go.... Congratulations!

I used it for a European site that was for luxury items. Luxury colors worked great.

Jared

Torgen
05-12-2005, 12:26 AM
Just played around with it some, looking for sand/"Beachy" type colors. Guess I'm just too tired right now. I'll need to go to Home Depot and pick a base color, then let it pick coordinating colors. :)

Caleb
05-12-2005, 05:18 PM
I *really* gotta dig MX out and relearn it. Haven't touched it in two years, and wasn't all that hot with it to begin with. ;) I have PaintShopPro9 and my wife has PS 7. That idea of using the Behr color matcher is outstanding! We used it to pick colors for the home office and second bath, but I never thought of using it for template design. :)


dig out mx? what the hell are you thinking?! shame on you.

Caleb
05-12-2005, 05:22 PM
http://www.colormatch.dk/
this works for your needs. IE only



Just played around with it some, looking for sand/"Beachy" type colors. Guess I'm just too tired right now. I'll need to go to Home Depot and pick a base color, then let it pick coordinating colors. :)

Caleb
05-12-2005, 05:25 PM
I agree caleb; So I'm setting my template prices at $5,000 US Each.
Jared

do i get a percentage of that?

My tools
1. HTML-KIT
2. PS CS
3. Good chair to sit in.
and
4. ACDSEE image browser
5. Winamp for music
6. some sort of coke product.

jared
05-12-2005, 05:26 PM
IE sucks and should be banned from all desk tops of novice internet people especially. Its, buggy, ugly, and they chose not to go with any of the standards that make most other browsers a charm by comparison.

BAN IE <<<GET FIREFOX>>>


Jared

Caleb
05-12-2005, 05:49 PM
your right. 100% but people are cows, and they go moo and follow one another. sheep are funner cause they walk off cliffs and are really desired in the middle eastern areas. but no cows people are. without ears or since. its strange, over the last day or so i had 3 people come to me, 2 in person one over the phone. 2 i did not even remember but they just stopped to thank me for showing them firefox. they where so pleased with it. one guy called me after two weeks of using it just to say thanks. (i fix computers for a living) and ie is the cause of about 90% of my work. anyway ie is bad. but the bad thing is some old websites designed by amature web designers with a collage degree saying they know thier shit. excuse me, they know shit. anyway some stuff only works in ie still. and you got to make sure the cows can see it too. after all good cheese comes from happy cows. and who does not like cheese?


IE sucks and should be banned from all desk tops of novice internet people especially. Its, buggy, ugly, and they chose not to go with any of the standards that make most other browsers a charm by comparison.

BAN IE <<<GET FIREFOX>>>


Jared

the_sandking
05-12-2005, 06:03 PM
6. some sort of coke product.

I need coke too, so I can work longer, so I can make more money, so I can buy more coke product...




-PHPEdit Professional (anyone serious about PHP uses this application)

But seriously,

Eventually most people will tire of PHPedit crashing or losing their work, and this happens a lot, but it is still a great app. PHPedit used to be very cool in many regards, but ZEND studio now blows it away.. It cuts at a minimum 20-30% off of my dev time only by finding my stupid mistakes for me. It costs $$ but it is still cheaper than DWMX, and all the DWMX PHP plugins or extensions in the world won't debug code as effortlessly and reliably in *realtime* as the ZEND product does..

Lean and mean apps I use these days:

ZEND Studio
Imageready
XARA 3D

Navicat
Multi-Edit professional (DOS, circa 1987)
PFE text editor
MS-EXCEL
Notepad

Firefox
IE 6.x

Basically, if I cannot do something to a site with what is listed above, somebody else should be doing it instead of me. IE is listed last on purpose, because I only use it to make sure the final results look "correct" for all those captive IE users. I have found that designing for FF first, makes me write better code the first time, and as such revisions for IE are often unnecessary or minor.

jared
05-12-2005, 06:17 PM
the_sandking;

ZEND Studio
Imageready
XARA 3D

I haven't used these in some time. I have the latest and greatest of PHPEdit. Likely the only good software to come out of France.

I have an old copy of XARA but its a student license and I never even opened it up.

Imageready? photoshops Imageready? I love it.

I really need to check out ZEND Studio.

Jared

RealEstate
05-12-2005, 07:10 PM
Caleb,

In mashcars, is the home page featured 6 listings dynamically generated?

How did you do it so that the 6 listings have the border?

Caleb
05-12-2005, 07:25 PM
Well the client wanted more on the front page. so as the featured part of the tables allows a few options
1. ( )not featured
2. (1)featured row1
3. (2)featured row2
4. (w)web special

on the front page it will grabe 3 random listings from the featured =1, on the second it does the same but from featured =2, with a limit of 3 on both. then the client wanted some listings to be web specials. these would have a cash only price tag and would not show with the regular listings. so i added the (w) option.



Caleb,

In mashcars, is the home page featured 6 listings dynamically generated?

How did you do it so that the 6 listings have the border?